Player types, part three: Potential Bills Fullbacks

by Kurupt on Apr 10, 2008 8:34 AM EDT in NFL Draft Comment 28 comments

Mike Cox could be a real steal at the end of the draft (Savannah Morning News)

Today, we bring you part three of a four-part series examining the types of players, rather than specific players, that the Buffalo Bills may target during the draft. The aim of these articles is to try to come to a consensus on what type of player the Bills should be looking to add to the roster. Now up: Fullback. Will the Bills need a short yardage lead blocker only? Where will we address this position?

FULLBACK: Does the offense need a FB for all running downs or just short yardage?

I wish we all knew how Turk Schonert plans to utilize the FB this upcoming season. With veteran Darian Barnes on board, the Bills may not even consider the position a need heading into this month's Draft. If the staff is not comfortable with Barnes, it is very likely we will see a FB picked this year. If we are going to be using a FB on most first and second down plays, it is likely to be a higher priority during the draft. If all we need is a player to come in to the game in short yardage situations, we may not even draft a FB and go after undrafted free agents. If Schonert plans to use the FB in the passing game, we will surely look at one of the top two available. Regardless, most of us will agree that the Bills need to find a young lead blocker to pave the way for Marshawn Lynch and company.

Versatile FB's:

Mid/Late Rounds: Peyton Hillis (Arkansas), Owen Schmitt (West Virginia), Jacob Hester (LSU), Jehuu Caulcrick (Michigan State), Carl Stewart (Auburn), Jerome Felton (Furman)

Short Yardage Only FB's:

Mid/Late Rounds: Mike Cox (Georgia Tech), Michael Pitre (UCLA), Chris Alexander (Texas A&M), Dionte Johnson (Ohio State)

All right Rumblers, let's here it. What type of Fullback do you think the Bills should go after and at what point in the Draft should they address the position?

0 recs | Comment 28 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Fullbacks

I love Owen Schmitt have for a while but I also like Hillis, and Caulcrick. I think that any of those three would be solid additions. The only concern I have about Caulcrick, is the fact that at the combine he only did 16 reps of 225, I would have thought he would be stronger than that. He also was a RB at Michigan state, I would be concerned about his blocking.

Man do I miss #78

by sireric on Apr 10, 2008 8:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

schmitt

i too am a big fan of owen schmitt, but i think hell go pretty early in the draft. he might even go round three. if the bills can grab him with their original 4th, or even the compensatory that would be a steal. but think the bills will adress another position, possibly center in the 3rd. so well see. i think if the bills are going to draft a fb at all though it may be late in the draft, like rounds 5-7.

by big john on Apr 10, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Versatile FB not needed

Many like Schmitt,as do I, and if we can land him that would be great. I wonder what competition there is for a FB. I like our chances of getting a good blocker.
Frankly, I would like to just see a battering ram, and whether he catches the ball or not, it doesn't matter, and we have runners. I want a fearless lead blocker ready to lay the hammer down.

The Bills can win every game

by killascript on Apr 10, 2008 9:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

FB

Jehuu Caulcrick !! 22 TD's in that conference;
'nuff said.
Amir FaSaad

Amir FaSaad

by Amir FaSaad on Apr 10, 2008 9:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I like the guy

I think he could be a great goal line/short yardage back, that would keep some wear and tear off of Lynch. But if he's being drafted as a fullback, I wonder how good his blocking is.

Man do I miss #78

by sireric on Apr 10, 2008 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nobody knows

There are only a few formations where MichSt has both Ringer and Caulcrick out at the same time, where Caulcirck is lined up in front of Ringer as a FB...

But i think the purpose of that is more as misdirection b/c you have no idea which one will get the handoff... I've only seen this formation from them a few times (maybe twice?)... and I can't remember what Caulcrick did.

Any other Big10 guys out there that remember?

by osmanBAE on Apr 10, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i wonder how good a blocking FB would be, anyway.

marshawn has never played with a fullback, i don't think. and for plenty of running backs that aren't used to playing with a lead blocker, the fullback can just get in the way.

and did anyone watch south park last night?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nDmlAniWUU0

classic.

by sri on Apr 10, 2008 10:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Benefit

I think ML can only benefit, and I think it will help alot with the line as well.
2nd year the O line is together
A lead blocker that give Marshawn one less guy to think about and gives us the ability to wear down other teams when we have a lead, like we could have against the Giants, and maybe even could have helped in Cleveland

The Bills can win every game

by killascript on Apr 10, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jacob Hester

Jacob was the leading rusher for LSU this past season. He might need to bulk up a little but before the 2007 season he was a full time fullback in the best conference in the country. He should be available in the last two rounds and he is one of the most explosive players at his position coming out this year. He was used as a weapon receiving the ball out of the backfield his entire career and I believe he could do it for the Bills in a big way.

by lukeiz21 on Apr 10, 2008 11:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The one thing really impressive about Hester

The one thing really impressive about Hester was in so many situations, EVERYBODY knew Hester was getting the ball...yet they fed it to him anyway and he would twist and claw and get the first down.

by osmanBAE on Apr 10, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea

i have to agree, especially during the UF game. I mean on that one drive alone, everyone in the country knew he was gettin the ball, and he still got about 3 yards on fourth down at least twice. i like hester, but i think owen would be a bit better, hes just a hard nosed guy that you know will give 110% everyday.

Still waiting on the next Kelly....

by silverstreak3k on Apr 10, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he did it in other games too but

... the UF game sent his draft stock soaring.... with good reason cuz that drive was awesome... what what balls on Les Miles... going for it time and time again... with the national TV audience... whoa... now if only Miles will realize that Perillioux is a cancer on his team and just dump him.

by osmanBAE on Apr 10, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True FB

I want a FB who will blow up LB's - plain and simple. Any ability to run or catch a pass is secondary IMO. We need someone who can put a hat on a LB, or a S, and get Marshawn some running room

by Renegade23 on Apr 10, 2008 11:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

A versatile fullback would

be nice, because it would take some of the load off of Marshawn (and keep him fresher for the end of the season). Ideally, a FB who could be used in short yardage & red zone situations, would give defenses something else to worry about besides Marshawn up the middle. A versatile FB would be a great pass rush protector, and an outlet for Trent Edwards on occasion. Anyone remember Roland Hooks (or Jamie Mueller late in his career)?

I don't know if the Bills will be able to get this kind of player with so many other needs to address, but it sure would help. An impact FB doesn't need to show gaudy stats, but be able to contribute to the offense in ways that make a difference, like lead block, pass protect, convert 3rd-and-short situations into 1st downs, & make the extra block that springs a big play offensively.

Get the Bills back to the big game!

by Blitz on Apr 10, 2008 11:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Need scouting report on Darian Barnes

HEY, anyone out there got a scouting report on Darian Barnes... and why type of FB he is (blocking or rushing)?...

i think then we'll know what type of FB we need from the draft... b/c what's the likelihood of us picking up someone of the same "type" as Barnes?

by osmanBAE on Apr 10, 2008 1:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

From Scouts, Inc.

2008 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 55 | Key
Alert: None

Comment: Barnes is a big, strong player with average athletic ability. He is used primarily as a blocker and special teams player. He has rarely carried the ball over his five years in pro football. Barnes appears to be tough and hard-nosed as a blocker but is inconsistent with his effectiveness. He can hit a target on a track but does not have great foot agility or balance to adjust and search out a moving defender. He wears a big neck collar and tends not to stick his face down the middle when attempting blocks. Barnes does play hard and works to finish, but his athletic ability limits his overall play. He has reliable hands as a receiver out of the backfield but little run-after-catch ability. It's hard to find big backs that will do the dirty work, and he makes an honest attempt and will throw his body around. He has value as a limited offensive blocker and special teams contributor.

Create a free account to join in the discussion, Bills fans!

by Brian Galliford on Apr 10, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Guess that settles it!

There are two types of FBs... the "Mobile O-Lineman" (blocker) and the "Tweener" (utility)
.

So it seems Barnes is a primary blocker for Marshawn... so we need that "Tweener" that can take some carries from ML and CONSISTENTLY produce short yardage 1st downs:

Requirements:

Is in between a FB and a big RB that can catch and has some elusiveness
Has to have more bulk and run with more power than Marshawn (hard to believe)
He still needs to be a good blocker otherwise you're telegraphing your next move by substituting him in.

Frankly, ALL of the FB prospects fall short in one or more of these categories... EXCEPT for Javorski Lane @ TexAM (6'0,280,4.7), 4.8yrd/carry+16TDs... i swear to you this kid really can run a 4.7ish 40 (He ran 4.6s in HS) and can jook and catch, but mostly runs over people... unfortunately he's not in the draft.

SOLUTION
My best "short yardage" option has to be Jehu Culcrick (6'0,254,4.67)... this guy is the definition of "you-know-i'm-comin-but-you-still-can't-stop-me" type back... and unlike Hester [who as an awesome O-line], he doesn't have monsters blocking for him.

If you see him run he jooks some blockers, but mostly "slips" tackles... making slight adjustments to fit into gaps (prob better than Hester). How do we know he's effective?... he scored 21 TDs last season... I don't have his 1st down pick-up numbers, but trust me they're the most on the team. Plus we can pick him in a very late round, unlike Hillis/Hester who both seem to be 4th rounders.

Problems with Culcrick:
Was not asked to block much.. he is a RB and MichSt has a FBs that blocks for him.

SOME STATS==Year GP Att Yds Avg TD Rec Yds TD 2004 11 113 619 5.5 5 2 27 0 2005 11 89 478 5.4 7 5 53 0 2006 11 108 426 3.9 6 15 123 1 2007 13 222 872 3.9 21 5 36 0 Totals 46 532 2,395 4.5 39 27 239 1

EXTRA TIDBITS==

MichSt has a famous formation they run for goal line situations with Culcrick... its a "stacked power-I" or some of us in the Big10 call it "The Train" ... its a Power-I with the QB, then two lead blockers infront of Culcrick (thats 4 people lined up in the backfield including the QB)... Looks like a perfect "T"... basically YOU KNOW WHATs COMING, straight up the gut... but you just can't stop it...

by osmanBAE on Apr 10, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

a tweener FB

If that's the route we go, I really, really, really hope we don't pick one until the 6th or 7th round. Grab Caulcrick or Carl Stewart there.

I wish we all knew what the plan for utilizing a FB was. If it's the type of player to clear lanes on run downs only, then we could potentially stick with Barnes only.

I just hate the idea of wasting a mid round pick on a FB when lead blockers can be had late or undrafted.

by Kurupt on Apr 10, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

if we didn't get barnes in the offseason, then we might consider a more high-profile FB... but we just acquired a "blocker" ...

and you make a good point that b/c of barnes maybe we don't even draft a FB at all... its more of a 'want' than a 'need' now... we can use that 4th round pick for one of the "falling stars" that always shows up in the 3rd/4th of every draft year.

then DJ gets kudos from the press saying he picked up so-and-so "on the cheap"

by osmanBAE on Apr 10, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

FB

In the 4th, I'd much rather address positions like CB, LB, 2nd WR or even situational pass rusher...not a FB.

I added the picture of Mike Cox to this writeup because I feel he would be an excellent 7th round or UDFA addition. At this point I see no need to take a FB any earlier than that. As you can tell I'm not on the Owen Schmitt stagecoach. We have bigger needs elsewhere...

by Kurupt on Apr 10, 2008 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The problem is

we don't know how the FB will used in the offense Turk will run, so it's very difficult to know what kind of FB the Bills will target. And you know they will target one for training camp competition, if nothing else.

With so many needs to address through, the Bills aren't likely to draft a FB before Round 6 (if at all). It's very likely they will try to pick one up as a college free agent, hoping to find a "diamond in the rough". That's my take on how Buffalo will approach it.

Would I like to see them draft a stud that can lend a lot of versatility to the position? Absolutely. Anything to make this offense less offensive to watch!

Get the Bills back to the big game!

by Blitz on Apr 10, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

West Coast Style FB

With Trent seeming to be a ball control type passer and word of the offense being geared for YAC receivers it looks like we will be running a variation of the west coast offense. So in terms of a FB I would think we'd be looking for someone in the Tom Rathman mold from the 90's 49ers(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY726D982B8)
A tough blocker and hard nosed runner with good hands. Not necessarily a game breaker or a strong running threat, but good ability to catch 4-5 yard swing passes and be an adequate runner.
I think Hester from LSU may be this type of guy IF he has the mental toughness to be a physiacal blocker. He didn't block too much in the LSU games I saw.

I'm a newbie, so let me say it's nice to be on BR. Solid site.

by bizzy on Apr 10, 2008 2:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Fullbacks

Let's remember we are talking about the Bills here. They do not pay to much attention to stats. They look at game film for "FOOTBALL PLAYERS". From everything I have heard and seen, Schmitt from WV is a blue-collar Bills kind of guy. Look for Buffalo to grab him in round 4.

by bobb498 on Apr 10, 2008 4:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

we love him, but do we need him

Over the past few weeks, i think everyone has made it clear we love schmitt... he's our kind of guy, hard worker, blue-collar, already married w/kid, benches 8000lbs, has mohawk, huge frame etc, etc...

But we just picked up a "blocking" FB in the off season... if we get another FB, its going to be in the later rounds and prob not another "blocking" FB (although maybe they want to build a stable of them, who knows?)

Plus i think everyone is going after this guy... so he's going to cost us... so im betting he's not going to be a bill...though I really really want him... partially cuz he can punt too... every see him do his pooch kick thing... one of the funniest sights in all of football.

by osmanBAE on Apr 10, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

FB

osmanBAE:

I don't know about that. Everything I've seen in the way of mock drafts don't have the kid going anywhere prior to Round 4. As good as he is, the FB position just isn't ranked that high a need by anyone anymore.

by bobb498 on Apr 10, 2008 6:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think we take both...

Caulcrik (in the 6th) AND Mike Cox (7th). I think we need a BIGGER RB and Caulcrik fits that mold.

Cox just plain BLOWS people up. Check him out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs6i_JVxviA&NR=1

by BBFan4Life on Apr 10, 2008 6:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thank You!

I couldn't find much on Mike Cox, so I'm glad you posted that. He is a very good lead blocker, but isn't going to be much help in the passing game or running the ball, which is just fine with me. I love Cox and would be much happier with him 3 rounds after someone takes Schmitt (whoops, not a fan of the double entendre I put at the beginning of that sentence).

I disagree with you that we need to think about adding both those guys. Why do you think we need a bigger RB? All we have are inside runners. Lynch is a power runner who showed his grit in between the tackles. Jackson is a slasher who looked good finding the gaps in the interior D, but doesn't have breakaway speed. Wright is a bigger back and uh, yeah that's all the good I can say about him for now. We don't need another big RB who does his best work inside the tackles. What we really need is a speed back who has the ability to take it to endzone at any time. There's no need to add a similar RB to what we already have. I hope we can find an Ahmad Bradshaw late in this draft.

Anybody else like Mike Cox yet? I still don't understand the undeniable fawning over Owen Schmitt and the hoping that we take him in the 3rd or 4th rounds. He's a good player and a very good lead blocker, but there's no need to take a FB at that point in the draft. If he were there in the 6th or 7th round, then it's a different story.

by Kurupt on Apr 10, 2008 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about Jonathan Evans

Does anyone know what kind of FB Jonathan Evans is??

2006 - CHARGERS: Allocated to NFL Europa and played in eight games with six starts for the Berlin Thunder... Recorded 10 receptions for 46 yards and one touchdown

COLLEGE: Rushed for 89 yards on 35 carries with one touchdown and posted 30 receptions for 269 yards and one touchdown at Baylor... Switched to fullback from tight end after a redshirt year in 2000... Graduated with a degree in communications in December 2003.

Thats all I could find, doesnt tell me much.

6'1" 245, i would have to imagine he's a decent blocker since he used to play TE. And with a year in our system, maybe we brought in Barnes to compete with Evans.

by Baggz on Apr 10, 2008 10:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs