Malcolm Kelly rumor

by Kurupt on Apr 9, 2008 12:54 PM EDT Comment 64 comments

Rumor has it that Kelly ran a 4.75 at his Pro Day today. Here's the link

I don't believe it yet, so I'll leave it as it is...a rumor.

That would be ridiculously slow and probably knock him to the 3rd round if true....

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Yeah...

... I'll remain skeptical until it's reported at a more reputable source. Anything between, let's say, 4.49 and 4.6 means he's still the best receiver in this class - because, let's face it, he was never known for his speed. 4.75 would be brutal, but again, I'm not buying it.

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by Brian Galliford on Apr 9, 2008 1:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It isn't a rumor

Scott Wright confirmed it. He thinks Kelly is still a 2nd round prospect.

4.75 and 4.77 unofficially

If the Bills draft Kelly, I will be VERY dissapointed.

by kaisertown on Apr 9, 2008 1:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

"High 4.6/Low 4.7"

Wright confirms in this forum thread.

Not a good day to be Malcolm Kelly. Devin Thomas, anyone? :)

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by Brian Galliford on Apr 9, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

All I can say is

Bad knees = slow timed speed

Man do I miss #78

by sireric on Apr 9, 2008 1:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's on NFL.com now too

4.75 and 4.68. That's just slow.

Guess the injuries have taken their toll. No way would I touch him in the 1st round. How is he going to separate from CB's?

by Kurupt on Apr 9, 2008 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The same way

Anquan Boldin and Marques Colston do. Just by being a good football player.

Please note that's not me advocating taking Kelly at #11. Kelly is still my favorite receiver. I'm warming up to the idea of taking Antoine Cason at #11 and Kelly at 41.

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by Brian Galliford on Apr 9, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I probably don't want Kelly at #11 anymore but I still believe he will separate in the NFL. He also is still my favorite receiver. What's wrong with trying to trade down now or even taking Sweed who was Miller's favorite? Antoine Cason is a new one Ive heard at #11, most everywhere else I look he's projected late 1st, early 2nd. Did his stock rise without me noticing?

It's not delivery, It's DiGiorgio!

by poz on Apr 9, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cason is moving up

But if you ask anyone but me, #11 is still too high. But Cason is going to be graded higher by Cover 2 teams because he's tough, fast, fluid and a playmaker. Honestly, he could be anywhere from the first to the fifth corner taken. I'd love to see him in a Bills uniform.

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by Brian Galliford on Apr 9, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did I advocate you

To pick Antoine Cason? I rated him the #1 CB in the draft. I didn't know I have such influence ;)

Bills fan half way around the world

by moncheri on Apr 10, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How is he going to separate from CB's?

I'm not advocating anything here.

I'm just saying that some receivers can be open without getting separation due to their size, hands, jumping ability, competitiveness, long arms, or catching radius. Some receivers can make contested catches. Throw it up and they come down with it.

How good do you want the Bills to be?

by Fort Worth on Apr 9, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In this case...

... "Hands" is the key word. Kelly's got an impressive set of those, and his hands/production are why he won't slide out of the second round. Even after pulling a tortoise today.

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by Brian Galliford on Apr 9, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just wondering...

Again, I'm not advocating anything here.

I wonder what Kelly weighed in at? After all this time, being overweight and/or out of shape would be a sorry excuse for his slow time.

How good do you want the Bills to be?

by Fort Worth on Apr 9, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jauron's Take

"...But we want a big, rugged, tall receiver that's open when he's not open. That's what I'd like to add."

At #11? We'll see.

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/billsnfl/story/313439.html

How good do you want the Bills to be?

by Fort Worth on Apr 9, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kelly

Does anyone now agree with me that he's not a good value at #11?

by krytime on Apr 9, 2008 1:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Is that a rhetorical question?

I think EVERYONE agrees on that now.

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by Brian Galliford on Apr 9, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is just plain weird

But I must admit, that I don't care about his timed speed too awfully much. The guy produced and that is good enough for me. I think sometimes people get blinded by the stop watch. I still don't like a WR @11, but Kelly's timed speed doesn't make me like him less.

Man do I miss #78

by sireric on Apr 9, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Timed Speed

I agree about timed speed not meaning too much to an extent, along with all of the combine numbers and drills as well. But...

It is a test, and it's something you can prepare for. Look what it did for Mike Mamula. If Kelly couldn't "pass" this test, it means one of three things: He's still hurt, he didn't prepare, or he's slow as dirt. And each of those would be warning signals in my book not to draft him high at all.

by krytime on Apr 9, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Slow as dirt

I'm not sure that I could call anybody who runs a 4.75 slow as dirt.

Lets look at that number for a second. 4.75 that's slow, but 4.50 is acceptable? That's a quarter of a second. 1/4 think about that if a guy who runs 4.50 and Kelly have a race, how far behind would Kelly be after 40 yards? Not far. (I'm no math wiz, and if any of you are and wish to figure it out feel free.)

I understand that he should have done better, and I still feel weird sticking up for a guy that I don't even want to draft, but to me I can't get to bothered by .25 of a second, and if the Bills love him as much as Geronimo says they do, I doubt that OBD will either.

Man do I miss #78

by sireric on Apr 9, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's still slow

And, I would imagine it has to make OBD think a little about this guy, correct? 4.75 is just not WR speed...

by krytime on Apr 9, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Please

Let us not associate "4.75" with "Malcolm Kelly". He did time a 4.68, according to Gil Brandt, and you always take the fast time in the 40. So proceed to associate "4.68" with "Malcolm Kelly". :)

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by Brian Galliford on Apr 9, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

much appreciated

I know it must pain you to stick up for Kelly sireric but I think it is a testament to the fact that you write honest opinions on this blog. It is much appreciated and I'm glad someone can point out 4.75 (he also ran 4.68) is only a 1/4 behind 4.50, and that in combination with Kelly's insane jumping ability, hands, and positioning he can still separate from CBs.

It's not delivery, It's DiGiorgio!

by poz on Apr 9, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Insane"

is strong when you're talking about Kelly's vert, which was measured at 32" today. That's much lower than the vertical that Sweed put up. If Kelly has insane anything, it's hands.

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by Brian Galliford on Apr 9, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

A few weeks ago when we were discussing Thomas' vertical, someone (I forget who) said his 33" vertical was horrendous....Kelly's looks somewhat weak now coupled with his slow time...

by Kurupt on Apr 9, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kelly Vertical

Kurupt, that was me... I wasn't implying Thomas had an awful vertical, but it was awful for the #1 ranked WR in the draft (which many were saying he deserved)... I was just peeved that our fans were puffing up Thomas too much... anyway.

Before this pro-day, Kelly was measured at 4.55ish 40 and a 37" vertical... as for what the heck happened during this weird pro-day (4.7ish, 32")... who knows, but I kinda feel sorry for him now b/c this is going to shake up the draft boards.

The big question is... is this a fluke??

by osmanBAE on Apr 9, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't like the guy

But Keyshawn Johnson, was never the fastest guy around, and he had no problem getting open.

Man do I miss #78

by sireric on Apr 9, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

Johnson ran around a 4.5 at his pro day.

scroll down to the bottom - its under quick hits

by kaisertown on Apr 9, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking

more along the lines of later in his career, when he was with Dallas and Carolina.

Man do I miss #78

by sireric on Apr 9, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lets look at that

It said he ran between a 4.47 and 4.53 say he ran a 4.53 (yes worst case) and Kelly just ran a 4.68, that's a difference of .15. That's less then 2 tenths of a second. I still can't drop the guy, and truth be told, if I had wanted him at 11, i would still take him, 40 time be damned.

Of course this is all irrelevant as the Bills will now select Derrick Harvey with the 11th overall pick.

Man do I miss #78

by sireric on Apr 9, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

40 times

Yeah the slowest Johnson ran was a step faster than the fastest time Kelly had. That one step can be a pretty big difference.

It is easy to say that timed speed doesn't matter, but name me 3 WRs to run that slow and still develop into stars or even above average players.

Brian named one in Anquan Boldin who ran a 4.71. He also said Colston, but he ran a 4.5. How did Colston not get drafted until the last pick again?

by kaisertown on Apr 9, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That one step...

Agreed. Football is a game of inches.

How good do you want the Bills to be?

by Fort Worth on Apr 9, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I Agree

with your last statement. However, 4.75 is a very slow time for a wide receiver. The time differential does matter. We all know that football is not only a game of heart, but also a game of inches.

How good do you want the Bills to be?

by Fort Worth on Apr 9, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kelly would be

2.065 yards behind by the time "Mr. 4.5" finished.

by jj24 on Apr 9, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That at 4.75

at 4.68 Kelly would be 1.53 yards behind when someone running a 4.5 finished. Now, when considering that this is without pads in conditions that aren't equivalent to actually PLAYING, I don't know if the 40 time is that relevant. Someone could run slower in pads and Kelly could run the same, or vice-versa.

by jj24 on Apr 9, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mike Mamula

I've never really understood the whole Mike Mamula thing. I feel like I hear his name every time people discuss the combine.

He ran a 4.63 at 250 pounds. That is fast, but not ridiculous. He was a pretty good player too.

by kaisertown on Apr 9, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not Good

So does anyone think OBD is talking about sweed again, or does the convo switch to Thomas?............on a side note i got a chance to speak with Bryant Johnson today face to face! I was helping him with some things through my job and he seemed like a nice guy.....wouldn't our draft board be different if we had him

by LuBAR on Apr 9, 2008 1:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bryant Johnson

Did you ask him why he didn't take the multi-year offer from the Bills?

by Kurupt on Apr 9, 2008 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Per Marshall Faulk...

Panda wasn't comfortable joining a Bills' passing game that needs a better left tackle to give him the time to get open.

How good do you want the Bills to be?

by Fort Worth on Apr 9, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also...

Faulk told Panda that Jonas Jennings is a better left tackle than Jason Peters.

How good do you want the Bills to be?

by Fort Worth on Apr 9, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Couldn't

I was at work and i had to try to keep it proffessional. I did ask him about San Fran though. He said he's been out there for the last month and that he likes it. Then i told him that we would of liked to have him in Buffalo and he laughed a little and i said i understood that he had to make the best decision for him and his family. THen i wished him luck, i worked with him for about an hour and he was cool and i didn't want to press him to me.

by LuBAR on Apr 9, 2008 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did you ask him

what he was smoking when he picked the Niner's over us?

Because the Bills have proved that they will choose value over need, and although I still love Sweed, i think Kelly's poor 40 ensures that we will NOT be addressing WR in round 1. Man, I hope we get Harvey.

Anti-CB

by Kumario! on Apr 9, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In light of this news....

does Harvey move to the top of some of your boards? :)

I love Antoine Cason, just nowhere near #11. There is no reason we should pick at #11 (except for Harvey or a guy who slides out of the top 10) as it's obvious no WR is worth that pick and I don't like taking any of the CB's there. I guess McKelvin would be a good pick, but I don't expect him to be around. We HAVE to do everything we can to trade down now. If we can move down to the late teens/early 20's and then take a guy like Cason or Devin Thomas or Sweed then, it's the best move we can make.

by Kurupt on Apr 9, 2008 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No argument here

Trade is now the ideal option for the Bills.

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by Brian Galliford on Apr 9, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It always had been.

And it seems to always be every year for every team. It just doesn't actually happen very often. I'd assuredly look into it but if nothing favorable develops I would be happy going BPA and grabbing Harvey at 11 then following that up with a WR/TE combo in rounds 2 and 3, (Hardy + Carlson would be an absolute dream) CB in round 4, and a C with the comp pick.

Anti-CB

by Kumario! on Apr 9, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Harvey

he just now got to the top of my wish list.

Man do I miss #78

by sireric on Apr 9, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kelly still recovering from injury

That time has to be a product of his injury, not a reflection of his game speed if he were healthy. I don't know if I would put much stock into it. You might better say his speed is 4.68 after 4 months of recovery.

I wouldn't jump ship based on one day's numbers, if you believed in him before you knew how fast he was before his injury I have to imagine he will recover that form by the fall.

I couldn't say how it will reflect his stock, but I don't think he would fall as much as some people think.

by south123 on Apr 9, 2008 2:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I love all of this chatting

You guys automatically drop the guy to the 3rd round because he ran a 4.68? You all are crazy. He doesn't have to run a 4.4 to be a great NFL WR, but he does have to check out medically and have a good head on his shoulders. I will say this is reminding me a lot of Mike Williams. I loved Mike Williams at USC and then he took that year off, had average combine numbers and tanked in the NFL.

But Kelly is still a good football player. I love how people think players "stock" rises and drops by all these workouts. This is another sport example for Kevin Durant benched 185 1bs as max at the NBA combine last summer, which was the lowest of all the players. I know its not a perfect example but come on, lets not drop the guy 2 rounds just because of a 40 yd dash time.

The only concern scouts really have is his health. He still is a top 3 WR in this year's draft, IMO.

All that said I would not take him at #11.

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Apr 9, 2008 3:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

#11

That's been my whole point all along, that I wouldn't take him at #11. I don't think he should drop to the third round, but he definitely is not worth the #11 spot.

by krytime on Apr 9, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kelly at 11

I agree with everything you said, except abut liking Williams.

I know I've used the example before, but Terrell Suggs, ran some bad forties and is a fine DE, in the NFL.

Man do I miss #78

by sireric on Apr 9, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Suggs

Suggs, at 260 pounds, ran a 4.78 at the combine. That is an average time for someone of his size and position, not a slow time at all. It is actually a faster time than Derrick Harvey ran.

He is also a bad example, because he was super productive in college. He had 24 sacks his junior year.

by kaisertown on Apr 9, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

Hyperbole anyone?

NOBODY in the entire thread has mentioned the third round as a possiblity.

by kaisertown on Apr 9, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

psst

I did. In the original topic. Haha. Maybe a little rash, but you rarely see WR's with 40 times that poor going much higher than that. I can see him being a 1st rounder still, but I could also just as easily see him in the 3rd round.

by Kurupt on Apr 9, 2008 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ooops

my bad

by kaisertown on Apr 9, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

this doesnt...

this doesn't change much from me. I'm with Sireric and marv. it's a 40-time.

All it does change is the higher likelihood that it will turn other teams off. So to the extent that the Bills are worried that trading back would be too risky because they don't want to lose the guy, this may reduce the risk some.

Otherwise, I don't think it will change OBD's perception much.

John I.

by jri111 on Apr 9, 2008 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

curious

The Bills medical staff cleared him weeks ago and said they felt that his knees were not a concern. The man is still recovering and the Bills think he'll be fine, isn't than enough to give the kid the benefit of the doubt that he was still in pain during the workout. Just watch his game film, he is still the best receiver in my book.

It's not delivery, It's DiGiorgio!

by poz on Apr 9, 2008 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't raise any questions to you?

Would you still take him at #11? I surely wouldn't. Take into account the failure rate of WRs in the 1st, his health issues, and a slow forty, and you have a recipe for disaster here.

There has to be someone else who will be a better fit at the #11 spot.

by krytime on Apr 9, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Get him later

Now I think we have a real opportunity to trade down to the bottom of the 1st to grab him while coming away with another 2nd rounder. Its a real possibility considering the 2nd tier of talent run begins with our pick, we may have many potential suitors. I no longer feel that he is #11 value, but I still see him as a 1st rounder, early 2nd at the latest. We could potentially get three starters with a late 1st and two 2nds. WR, CB, and TE

It's not delivery, It's DiGiorgio!

by poz on Apr 9, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pro Day

Why does it say on the OU website that Malcom Kelly and Reggie Smith did not participate in Pro Day? On the NFL site it said Kelly looked very good.
IMO we could now trade down 5 spots or so and still get Kelly. If we stay at 11, looks like Kelly or Harvey or McKelvin. Sure would like to know why OBD likes Kelly so much. How long does it take for a quad tear to fully heal?

by keuka121 on Apr 9, 2008 3:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well

It is great stuff for us to talk about on message boards....but I'm not sure the 40 time tells us that much.

But I will say after hearing what Miller had to say today, I am more interested in learning more about what the folks at OBD have to say about Limas Sweed and Devin Thomas.....Hey GERONIMO (wink, wink)

Devin Thomas/Malcom Kelly are the only two WR's we have brought in for visits......maybe that is smoke we are blowing?

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Apr 9, 2008 3:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Too bad

But now the problem is whether he should be taken at all. There is Flowers in the 2nd rd, and I would rather have him at 41, than Kelly, so I can almost see us going Thomas, and then Flowers, no Kelly.
Yet, it has been reported here that Kelly is our number one guy and this pro day may change nothing, not sure.
However, it is like USC's Jarrett last year who went to Carolina. He had poor measurables and slipped to the second where they took him. Problem with that was Jarrett did nothing his rookie year.

I am a full swing over to Devin Thomas, as I can't see taking a guy like this who is to be a big threat across from Evans.

The Bills can win every game

by killascript on Apr 9, 2008 3:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I would

love it if we traded down a bit and got a second for a bottom 1st rounder. In the scenario we get Kelly at the end of the 1st, Flowers in the first half of the second and Carlson in the second half of the second.

It's not delivery, It's DiGiorgio!

by poz on Apr 9, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like the idea

But what if sweed 1st, Kelly and Flowers in the 2nd,Carlson 3rd.Not likely I know but intresting.

by ThatGuy2 on Apr 9, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What will happen

While most teams will shy away from Malcolm Kelly, he will be there for us to take in Round 2 (if he is healthy). I am not as concerned because stats and tape don't lie. I will assume now that Jackson, Thomas and Sweed are all ahead of Kelly.

If we landed harvey or McKelvin in round 1 and Kelly in round 2... that would be amazing.

I MUST SAY AGAIN... I am not concerned as much with his 40 time as long as he is back to 100%.

by hilliarddavid on Apr 9, 2008 3:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Kelly

running a slower time than expected just means he's not a lock at 11,also does he have faster game speed than clock speed? Don't get me wrong I think Sweed is better.Kelly slow 40 time only pushes in to the early 2nd and might just open the door for Sweed.

by ThatGuy2 on Apr 9, 2008 5:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Team Visits

Kelly can visit Buffalo (and I think something like 30ish other teams) and do individual workouts on their fields. He might still run the same disappointing 40 times at The Ralph. In either case, it looks like his stock has dropped. Going back to all of those Yo-Yo trade situations Buffalo now has a greater chance of getting one of the 3 big WRs (Kelly moreso than Sweed or Thomas) by dropping back into the high teens or low twenties. The two second rounders might allow them to trade back into the end of the first and get the TE they covet.

by Ron From NM on Apr 9, 2008 6:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs